Exclusive – In-Depth Interview With Cobourg Police Chief

Pete Fisher
5 years ago
• Categories: Editor Choice, Local

Today’s Northumberland sat down and spoke with newly appointed Cobourg Police Chief Paul VandeGraaf on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at his office at the Cobourg Police Station.
With Chief VandeGraaf was communications officer Laurie Debattista.
Today’s Northumberland spoke with Chief VandeGraaf three days after he was sworn in replacing Chief Kai Liu.

Today’s Northumberland: How’s it going so far?
Chief VandeGraaf: We’re settling in. It’s a tough time of year with summer holidays, lots of people are off. We’re slowly moving getting ready and in September we have a Sergeants meeting on September 13 and the Sergeants are going to hear first the organizational chart I see the police service having. They will have impact and input as to how they can see it working. Hopefully they see it as a good thing in how we can move forward. We’ve already begun with analytics and we’ve already got the MDT’s (mobile data terminal) in the cruisers which really start tracking the officers time and how much time they are doing paperwork, because that’s important. An officer can have eight calls in a shift, but two could take up six hours of paperwork. So we’re doing what other services are doing and getting into the minutia of how the officers start their day, the amount of rest they get, the amount of time they spent on particular calls so we can really, really understand what policing needs to look like for Cobourg, not for today, not really for tomorrow, but for the next decade because we have to now mirror that with the town’s growth, the town’s developmental chart and everything.
Like I said at my speech, I really see the Sergeants, who I was really proud to see them all there except for the two that were on holidays. We’re not going to have a Deputy Chief for the front run. The (Police Services) Board did approve for me to hire a front line officer to be above compliment instead of a Deputy Chief so there will be more people on the road. In that sense we are doing really good. We’re moving ahead steadily.

Today’s Northumberland: In your speech you spoke about how it looks like the aim is more to combat drugs on the street now?
Chief VandeGraaf: We are out and out combatting drugs on the street. We’ve had four good warrants, we’ve now got some people back to work and it’s no secret we were low staff, and we can argue about how it was termed, but we’re getting people back which is great. Every week or two weeks it seems someone is back to work which is just phenomenal and the Board is letting me stay above compliment which is great. We have a three person team in there (Criminal Investigations Branch) now. My hope is to get a couple more people back, that will put them on patrol or somebody will have a posting so we can have a really active unit. But we’re not going to arrested ourselves out of the opioid crisis. The last two weeks our members have been chasing people from this dumpster to this alley, from that alley to this park. That requires a harm reduction strategy and we’re meeting with the County on a whole look at the harm reduction strategy because there is vulnerable people in our community that may have to be arrested, but they may also need to be helped.

Today’s Northumberland: What do you want to say to the people that may seem negative about your hiring?
Chief VandeGraaf: There is a lot of reasons people may or may not like me but that is what it is. I’m a frank guy. I have high expectations. Sometimes my expectations are to high for others around me. I have to learn to a bit more open. That’s why I really dove into black box thinking for myself. So those who are negative, give me a chance. One thing I am, is one of the most hardest working guys you are ever going to meet. I’m honest, I’m fair. I have high expectations, but at the end of the day it is about doing the best thing for the people in this town of Cobourg and our visitors.

Chief VandeGraaf talks about the concern he is not living in the town of Cobourg
I did live in the town of Cobourg when I first came here from Belleville for two years before I moved to Brighton. And it was just a cost of living thing. I am probably as engaged in this community as a lot of people who live here are not. I sit on multiple boards. I volunteer at multiple activities. I spend a lot of money here. My wife works here. My wife spends a lot of money here. I’m a Cobourg employee, but I don’t live in the town of Cobourg. I would live in the town of Cobourg should that change, but at this particular time I truly feel my commitment to the town of Cobourg is not lost. I’m on the Y Board, I just now joined the Cornerstone Board. My wife and I were the community chair people for the Strong Kid’s Campaign. I’ve brought Red Nose here for any reason other than it’s important to combat impaired driving and I continue to work that project. I work with anybody and everybody and where I put my head at night – I don’t think is truly important. And when the Board negotiated my contract, didn’t feel it was important. And some Boards do, and some Boards don’t. And had the Board said we need you to live in Cobourg then I would. It would not be a hard thing to come live in Cobourg.

Today’s Northumberland: What is the status of suspended officer Constable Amy Matthijsse?
(Constable Matthijsse was charged in July 2018 with 19 counts of discreditable conduct under the Police Services Act)
Chief VandeGraaf: Let me go back chronologically. Based on a Ministry of Labour complaint that was lodged here (that Matthijsse lodged in October 2017). An investigation was ordered. Because it named five officers including the former Chief. The Chief relinquished his powers in relation to that investigation to the town. Which is a common practise and that was the best legal advice he received. So, the CAO (Stephen Peacock) took carriage of that and they hired an outside firm. The hired firm is a specialist in the occupational workplace harassment. They did a very thorough investigation and interviewed lots of people. There were over 40 allegations lodged against five officers and every officer was unequivocally cleared of any wrong doing. There was no harassment. In fact, the language used by the investigator was malicious, disingenuous, exaggerated, vexatious. So based on that, the investigation itself and all the results of the investigation, we had a police service (Durham Police) review it, to see if there were any Code of Conduct violations. Durham Police reviewed it, they didn’t do the investigation because it was done at nauseam. And they recognized there were areas where there were culpability under Section 5 of the Police Services Act. Such that, charges were laid.

Today’s Northumberland: Who did the investigation?
Chief VandeGraaf : – Schearer and Parnega lawyers. All they specialize in is cases of workplace harassment. Nothing to do with police. They did the thorough investigation and came up with their findings. It was over 200 page report and all the ancillary e-mails, responses and everything. Based on that, the charges were laid, the charges were read out. And in the course of the first appearance to the next appearance, OCPC (which is the Ontario Civilian Police Commission) stepped in and said they were going to do a preliminary review and asked the charges be put aside, not stayed, not dropped and I don’t know the word they used, but put aside. So time went on, time went on, time went on, and Constable Matthijsse was away on an extended/approved leave that situation changed as such that the suspension, given the nature of the event, which would have been normal. Chief Kai Liu then reached out to OCPC as to not interfere with what they are doing and asked permission, told them the circumstances, and OCPC said yup, based on the Act, you can suspend, so the suspension order was issued and that’s currently where we are at.

Today’s Northumberland – Isn’t it limbo?
Chief VandeGraaf – My understanding and all I can say is we’ve not received any information to say “carry on” and we’ve not received any information saying “get rid of this.”
We’ve received the original information going back a year, that said the investigation needs to be put aside because they (OCPC) do a preliminary review.

Today’s Northumberland – Constable Matthijsse stated previously when her three-year-old son was seriously injured in the eye in November 2016, the service contacted her as he was coming out of surgery and stated his injury did not constitute the officers time off.
Chief VandeGraaf – What happened in 2012 when Chief Liu came, one of the things where there was a problem was an attendance management problem. I was surprised when I came in 2014, there was no personal time or family time in the Collective Agreement. A lot of police services have that. There was a change here where people had issues with kids or dads or whatever else and this has nothing to do with Constable Matthijsse at all. They didn’t have to come to work. In this case Amy had the time off. It is true though, they are not “sick” by definition. They are off on something else, float time, stat time, annual leave time, just not sick. So, again there were two other officers in exactly the same position. Never said you had to come to work. One of them, their child had to go to hospital in Kingston. Just do what you have to do, go be with the family, we’ll figure this out. What had happened this wasn’t being universally applied. I had to step in and tell the Staff Sergeant it’s got to be universally applied. Nobody was ever ordered to work. Constable Matthijsse had the time off she wanted. In fact, the conversation I had with the Staff Sergeant should have stayed with the Staff Sergeant. It was the Deputy Chief telling the Staff Sergeant we universally apply these rules. But instead it was parlayed that I came out as a bit of a Ogre. In fact that night I sent a e-mail to her work phone to say whatever you need come see us. But there is a rule, and there is a Collective Agreement. That being said I petitioned on behalf of the membership with the Board and the Board saw the reason for Family Days. There were certain things that were agreed upon in extended negotiations (with the Police Association).
One of the things the Board agreed to almost right away was increased funding for physiological help to the tune of $1,000 or more and three family days. So if you can’t come to work become your mom, dad or kids need help, you just call in on family time. And we’ve had a couple of officers take advantage of that.

Today’s Northumberland – And the comments by Amy Arthur? (Arthur has filed a Human Rights complaint because she feels she was wrongly based on her disability dismissed three weeks into her training as a Cobourg Police Volunteer.)
Chief VandeGraaf – There is very little I can speak to about that. There is currently a Human Rights application in. We’ve fully cooperated with the Human Rights Tribunal. We categorically deny and have a different opinion about what’s going on there. But we categorically deny the allegations and we’ve letting the Human Rights do its business. We filed all of the information we have and we’ve cooperated fully.

Today’s Northumberland – Is it unfortunate some of the things got to this level?
Chief VandeGraaf – There was a comment in the report that actually said a lot of the allegations stem from a response to a cultural change of the Cobourg Police Service. Kai came in 2012 and brought a change. He had a different direction that wasn’t the norm. Change is difficult for people. I came in 2014 and brought more change. In hindsight if I went back – was change to fast – maybe. But like I said, I have a high bar. I think the change was for the right, I think the change was for the good. However some members struggle with change. That’s no if’s, and’s or but’s. So when I look back, and hindsight is a great thing, maybe we could have managed change better. And maybe we wouldn’t have had as angry as responses in some people. So could some of this been avoided – I don’t know. When people make allegations against officers and challenge peoples integrity, we’ve had a few investigations now where I won’t tolerate it. I hate rumours. And I actually challenge my Sergeants that if you hear a rumour get to it. And if you think there’s truth to it, bring it to my office. And let’s get to the bottom of it.
We’re in a very collaborative space right now. At my Change of Command, both associations were there. They weren’t there lightly. I made a commitment to both Associations that we’re going to work very collaboratively. We’re not going to always agree, but we’re going to come to common ground.
And I’ve demonstrated that with you in the last few weeks. And I’m going to stand up and say I was wrong here or maybe I should have that here. And our command briefings are going to start on Wednesday mornings in September and it will be the opportunity for them to brief me like a Wing Commander gets briefed, but it will also be a chance for them to say, this is a problem, let’s address it.

Today’s Northumberland – We’ve always said you don’t always have to agree to have communication. I think it’s great that you’ve reached out. Today’s Northumberland is open, but there was no reply at the other end.
Chief VandeGraaf – I’ll start off today be stating I’ll own that. I’ll own the fact that you and I could have had a better relationship – we didn’t. Some of the anger and ire that’s in the community may have been swaged if we had a better relationship. Because you have a voice. That being said, I’m my guy, I’m the Chief, I’m accountable. I stand here in front of you I’ll own it when I make mistakes and when I don’t, I’ll swing away.

Today’s Northumberland – Do you hope this all gets resolved soon?
Chief VandeGraaf – For everybody’s sake. I don’t hold grudges. I have way to much good work to do to hold grudges and I don’t hold grudges. But for everybody’s sake including Amy’s sake. Don’t forget, five responding officers who have been exonerated of any wrong doing are stuck in this limbo. Amy’s stuck in limbo.

Today’s Northumberland – Can you say anything about the tweet that Constable Larry Davis issued? (Davis issued a social media posted in July stating, “Absolute insanity these days in policing. Today I am one of two officers in Cobourg till 6 p.m. Responsible for roughly 18,000 residents, a full beach and music fest to boot downtown. Have a safe weekend everybody!!!!”)
Chief VandeGraaf – That investigation is just finishing up. And when I see the investigation report, again, I’m always about the least common denominator. So we’ll work with Larry, we’ll work with the Association to resolve this matter.